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Danevell n°22152
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#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
rejected: Soñjal a ra d'an diorroerien n'eo ket ur mennozh a-feson pe c'hoazh ez eo re uhel ar c'heñver koust/buzad
22152
What is this report about?
Petra a zo c'hoarvezet ? Trugarez evit dibab amañ dindan
Kinnig : d'am soñj e c'hellfe kement-se gwellaat a galz emplementadur ar c'hoari
Petra a zo c'hoarvezet ? Trugarez evit dibab amañ dindan
Kinnig : d'am soñj e c'hellfe kement-se gwellaat a galz emplementadur ar c'hoari
Gwiriit mar-plij ma n'eus ket dija un danevell evit an hevelep dodenn
M'oc'h a-du, VOTIT evit an danevell-mañ. An danevelloù gant ar muiañ a vouezhioù a vo studiet DA GENTAÑ !
| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
|---|
Deskrivadur dre ar munud
• Mar-plij, eilit/pegit ar gemennadenn fazi a zo war ho skramm, ma zo unan.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Displegit deomp, mar-plij, ar pezh ho poa c'hoant d'ober, ar pezh ho peus graet hag ar pezh a zo c'hoarvezet 'benn ar fin
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
• Mar-plij, eilit/pegit an destenn e Saozneg ha n'eo ket en ho yezh. M'ho peus un dapadenn skramm eus ar gudenn (ho pezit soñj d'eus se !), gellout a rit implij Imgur.com evit e bellgargañ hag eilañ/pegañ al liamm amañ.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Ha dibres eo an destenn-mañ er sistem treiñ? Ma ya, daoust ha troet eo bet ouzhpenn 24 eur 'zo ?
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
• Displegit ho kinnig mar-plij, e berrgomzoù met en un doare resis, evit ma vefe an aesañ posupl kompren mat ar pezh ho peus c'hoant lâret.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
• What was displayed on the screen when you were blocked (Blank screen? Part of the game interface? Error message?)
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
• Which part of the rules was not respected by the BGA adaptation
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Ha posupl eo gwelet torridigezh ar reolenn e replay ar bartienn ? Ma 'z eo ya, da be niverenn taol ?
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
• Peseurt taol ho peus c'hoant c'hoari ?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Petra emaoc'h o klask ober evit delankañ an ober c'hoari-mañ ?
• What happened when you try to do this (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
• Da be bazenn ar bartienn eo en em gavet ar gudenn (petra oa testenn kemenn ar c'hoari) ?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• What happened when you try to do a game action (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
• Mar-plij, diskrivit kudenn an diskwel. M'ho peus un dapadenn skramm eus ar gudenn (ho pezit soñj d'eus se !), gellout a rit implij Imgur.com evit e bellgargañ hag eilañ/pegañ al liamm amañ.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
• Mar-plij, eilit/pegit an destenn e Saozneg ha n'eo ket en ho yezh. M'ho peus un dapadenn skramm eus ar gudenn (ho pezit soñj d'eus se !), gellout a rit implij Imgur.com evit e bellgargañ hag eilañ/pegañ al liamm amañ.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Ha dibres eo an destenn-mañ er sistem treiñ? Ma ya, daoust ha troet eo bet ouzhpenn 24 eur 'zo ?
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
• Displegit ho kinnig mar-plij, e berrgomzoù met en un doare resis, evit ma vefe an aesañ posupl kompren mat ar pezh ho peus c'hoant lâret.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Mozilla v5
Roll-istor an danevelloù bog
4. Eos 2020 23:13 • DarkBeerMike • This suggestion has not been analyzed by delopers yet:
optional undo
5. Eos 2020 21:34 • DarkBeerMike • This suggestion has not been analyzed by delopers yet:
Consider a checkbox to enable/disable the undo feature. I want it, but other players may feel differently.
8. Eos 2020 20:23 • Aeneas90 • This suggestion has not been analyzed by delopers yet:
Agreed. Undo should be mandatory for all games if hidden information isnt revealed.
9. Eos 2020 9:33 • ExtraPaul • Soñjal a ra d'an diorroerien n'eo ket ur mennozh a-feson pe c'hoazh ez eo re uhel ar c'heñver koust/buzad:
I understand your request.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
9. Eos 2020 16:35 • Aeneas90 • Soñjal a ra d'an diorroerien n'eo ket ur mennozh a-feson pe c'hoazh ez eo re uhel ar c'heñver koust/buzad:
Rejected the most upvoted issue because "its my first time and its too hard" doesnt fill me with confidence here. Perhaps see if there's a more experienced dev that can assist.
9. Eos 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Soñjal a ra d'an diorroerien n'eo ket ur mennozh a-feson pe c'hoazh ez eo re uhel ar c'heñver koust/buzad:
I correct my point of view : it's not "to hard", but "too dangerous".
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
10. Eos 2020 5:57 • ExtraPaul • Soñjal a ra d'an diorroerien n'eo ket ur mennozh a-feson pe c'hoazh ez eo re uhel ar c'heñver koust/buzad:
The request #22149 ask to change worker tile place on the board, then confirm.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
14. Eos 2020 0:54 • MoonGoyal • Soñjal a ra d'an diorroerien n'eo ket ur mennozh a-feson pe c'hoazh ez eo re uhel ar c'heñver koust/buzad:
I agree. Many games need this feature
14. Eos 2020 13:59 • paramesis • Soñjal a ra d'an diorroerien n'eo ket ur mennozh a-feson pe c'hoazh ez eo re uhel ar c'heñver koust/buzad:
An Undo action or confirm step is very frequently requested for adaptations where it doesn't exist, and I frequently see developers lean on the guidelines as an authoritative answer to every situation. Any experienced designer will tell you there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all answer. The entire intent of guidelines is to make better adaptations, and it is on the developer to decide where that line is.
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
14. Eos 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Fellout a rafe d'an diorroerien gouzout hiroc'h diwar-benn ar c'hinnig-mañ:
Hello Paramesis.
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
14. Eos 2020 17:16 • paramesis • Fellout a rafe d'an diorroerien gouzout hiroc'h diwar-benn ar c'hinnig-mañ:
There are a few ways you could go about this, but the simplest to implement and the one I would recommend would be database undo.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
15. Eos 2020 10:04 • ExtraPaul • An diorroerien a soñj dezho ez eo ur mennozh a-feson ha fellout a ra dezho stagañ ganti:
Thank you for this explanation.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
15. Eos 2020 15:20 • paramesis • An diorroerien a soñj dezho ez eo ur mennozh a-feson ha fellout a ra dezho stagañ ganti:
The basic implementation of database undo actually only requires a few lines of code.
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
15. Eos 2020 15:21 • paramesis • An diorroerien a soñj dezho ez eo ur mennozh a-feson ha fellout a ra dezho stagañ ganti:
I forgot to add that rolling out database undo will break games in progress, so it's best to do that now while it's in Alpha.
25. Eos 2020 15:58 • iris1 • An diorroerien a soñj dezho ez eo ur mennozh a-feson ha fellout a ra dezho stagañ ganti:
Wish it was like in carcassonne 3 tiles in hand. Be able to change mind about which of the three tiles and try them out on the before you confirm. Then I guess the undo would be not necessary.
14. Gwe 2020 3:39 • razzinplant • An diorroerien a soñj dezho ez eo ur mennozh a-feson ha fellout a ra dezho stagañ ganti:
An undo button when placing a tile would be nice so before you confirm placement you can choose a different tile.
24. Gwe 2020 10:32 • NexusHorizon • An diorroerien a soñj dezho ez eo ur mennozh a-feson ha fellout a ra dezho stagañ ganti:
I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile
24. Gwe 2020 11:49 • ExtraPaul • An diorroerien a soñj dezho ez eo ur mennozh a-feson ha fellout a ra dezho stagañ ganti:
Yes, and this iidea is here : boardgamearena.com/bug?id=24585
28. Gwe 2020 21:55 • ExtraPaul • Soñjal a ra d'an diorroerien n'eo ket ur mennozh a-feson pe c'hoazh ez eo re uhel ar c'heñver koust/buzad:
"I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile"
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
Ouzhpennañ un dra bennak d'an danevell-mañ
Ouzhpennit amañ mar-plij, tout ar pezh a c'hellfe bezañ talvoudus evit ma c'hellfemp dreveziñ ar bog-mañ pe kompren ho kinnig:
- Niverenn taol all / Niverenn ar fiñv
- Ha renket eo bet ar gudenn gant an douchenn F5 ?
- Ha c'hoarvezet eo ar gudenn meur a wech ? Bewech ? Cheñch-dicheñch ?
- M'ho peus un dapadenn skramm eus ar gudenn (ho pezit soñj d'eus se !), gellout a rit implij Imgur.com evit e bellgargañ hag eilañ/pegañ al liamm amañ.
Cheñch statud an danevell e :
bug?id=22152
