#63092: "Discarding to Minerva doesn't draw additional cards when you above hand limit"
Petra a zo c'hoarvezet ? Trugarez evit dibab amañ dindan
Petra a zo c'hoarvezet ? Trugarez evit dibab amañ dindan
Gwiriit mar-plij ma n'eus ket dija un danevell evit an hevelep dodenn
M'oc'h a-du, VOTIT evit an danevell-mañ. An danevelloù gant ar muiañ a vouezhioù a vo studiet DA GENTAÑ !
| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
|---|
Deskrivadur dre ar munud
-
• Mar-plij, eilit/pegit ar gemennadenn fazi a zo war ho skramm, ma zo unan.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• Displegit deomp, mar-plij, ar pezh ho poa c'hoant d'ober, ar pezh ho peus graet hag ar pezh a zo c'hoarvezet 'benn ar fin
Move 35.
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Mar-plij, eilit/pegit an destenn e Saozneg ha n'eo ket en ho yezh. M'ho peus un dapadenn skramm eus ar gudenn (ho pezit soñj d'eus se !), gellout a rit implij Imgur.com evit e bellgargañ hag eilañ/pegañ al liamm amañ.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• Ha dibres eo an destenn-mañ er sistem treiñ? Ma ya, daoust ha troet eo bet ouzhpenn 24 eur 'zo ?
Move 35.
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Displegit ho kinnig mar-plij, e berrgomzoù met en un doare resis, evit ma vefe an aesañ posupl kompren mat ar pezh ho peus c'hoant lâret.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" • Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Petra oa diskouezet war ar skramm pa 'z oc'h chomet stanket (Skramm goullo ? Ul lodenn eus etrefas ar c'hoari ? Kemennadenn fazi ?)
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" • Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Pesseurt reolenn n'eo ket doujet gant azasadenn ar c'hoari-mañ ?
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• Ha posupl eo gwelet torridigezh ar reolenn e replay ar bartienn ? Ma 'z eo ya, da be niverenn taol ?
Move 35.
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Peseurt taol ho peus c'hoant c'hoari ?
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• Petra emaoc'h o klask ober evit delankañ an ober c'hoari-mañ ?
Move 35.
-
• What happened when you try to do this (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Da be bazenn ar bartienn eo en em gavet ar gudenn (petra oa testenn kemenn ar c'hoari) ?
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• What happened when you try to do a game action (error message, game status bar message, ...)?
Move 35.
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Mar-plij, diskrivit kudenn an diskwel. M'ho peus un dapadenn skramm eus ar gudenn (ho pezit soñj d'eus se !), gellout a rit implij Imgur.com evit e bellgargañ hag eilañ/pegañ al liamm amañ.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" • Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Mar-plij, eilit/pegit an destenn e Saozneg ha n'eo ket en ho yezh. M'ho peus un dapadenn skramm eus ar gudenn (ho pezit soñj d'eus se !), gellout a rit implij Imgur.com evit e bellgargañ hag eilañ/pegañ al liamm amañ.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" -
• Ha dibres eo an destenn-mañ er sistem treiñ? Ma ya, daoust ha troet eo bet ouzhpenn 24 eur 'zo ?
Move 35.
• Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
-
• Displegit ho kinnig mar-plij, e berrgomzoù met en un doare resis, evit ma vefe an aesañ posupl kompren mat ar pezh ho peus c'hoant lâret.
I have 7 cards in hand. I discard one yellow card as an offering to Minerva.
I should draw 1 card (0 because I am at/above hand limit + 1 for each card discarded (in this case 1))
I didn't draw any cards. If I understand the logs correctly, game treats discarding to Minerva as increased hand limit, which does not produce correct result in this case.
Quote from the english rules:
"Draw cards from the deck in order to replenish your hand
to 5 cards. If you invoked Minerva (yellow/scientific),
draw one more card per card you discarded in Step 3
above" • Peseurt merdeer eo hoc'h hini ?
Google Chrome v98
Roll-istor an danevelloù bog
Thanks for raising this. You've made me realise that there is a rules ambiguity here, that I've never even thought about while both playing the game or while implementing it on BGA.
I've always taken the rule to be, with Minerva, instead of drawing up to 5, you draw up to 5+N, where N is the number of cards discarded. So in this case, discarding one card from a hand of 7, you would draw up to 6, which means not drawing at all as you had 6 cards in hand still.
But looking into it now, I do see your point of view - the rules seem to say you draw "up to 5" (meaning again drawing nothing), and THEN draw extra cards. I've never appreciated that there was any difference but there clearly is in this case.
It wouldn't be any problem for me to fix the code to do what you are suggesting - but I'm really not sure what the correct procedure is. I've just looked through rules threads on BGG, specifically about how the Minerva discard works, but can't even find this question clearly stated, let alone answered by the designer!
So I'm going to have to research how this is supposed to work. In the meantime, and before I pose a question on BGG - if you already know of any definitive ruling on this, please let me know!
If not, I'll update this either way once I have an answer. Thanks again.
I tried even looking at French rules - I suppose they are original. The google translate of that sentence is "Draw until you have 5 cards in hand. If you have summoned Minerva (science/yellow), draw a card more per discarded card."
Which doesn't add much clarity (and I don't know how well google translate works for fine details)
I asked on BGG a few days ago. I haven't had an "official" reply yet (ie from designer or publisher), and doubt I now will - however everyone who replied has said they agree with your interpretation. Which on balance I think I do too, from rereading the rules when you brought up this issue. So I will mark this as "confirmed", and start fixing it. It shouldn't be too complex to do but I'll have to test quite a few scenarios with Minerva to make sure I haven't unexpectedly broken anything, so all I can promise is it should be done in the next few days. (It's possible I finish it tonight but I don't really expect that, I'd rather be slower and get it right than quick and cause an issue.)
I'll update when it's deployed, both on here and also in an announcement to the player group explaining my rules misunderstanding and how it works (properly) after the fix, in case any are confused by the change in behaviour.
Thanks again
Ouzhpennañ un dra bennak d'an danevell-mañ
- Niverenn taol all / Niverenn ar fiñv
- Ha renket eo bet ar gudenn gant an douchenn F5 ?
- Ha c'hoarvezet eo ar gudenn meur a wech ? Bewech ? Cheñch-dicheñch ?
- M'ho peus un dapadenn skramm eus ar gudenn (ho pezit soñj d'eus se !), gellout a rit implij Imgur.com evit e bellgargañ hag eilañ/pegañ al liamm amañ.
